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How Far on do you put a Sax Mouthpiece?

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The basic idea of mouthpiece position on a sax is that pushing the mouthpiece farther down on the cork will make your intonation higher while pulling it out will make your intonation lower.

Vandoren V16 T9

To quote Jimmy, “You are basically playing a long tube when you play a saxophone. Saxophone is all about the speed of the air like any wind instrument. The length of the tube determines its harmonics. Since EVERYONE has a different throat ,mouth , teeth, and tongue, it is a truly individual journey to find out what works for you. I meet a lot of people who are looking for a standard but in fact there is only one way that will work for you.”

So it’s not as simple as pushing the mouthpiece on farther or pulling it out more.

The temperature and the environment affect intonation too- if it’s hot outside the air will move faster and the sax will be more sharp, if it’s cold- it will tend to be flat.

And a saxophone in tune on one note will not necessarily be in tune on another note, if not adjustments are made by the player. With practice, you’ll develop control and these things will happen subconsciously.

Reed and Mouthpiece Combinations….

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Mike emailed me asking about reeds and mouthpieces.

Please leave a comment about mouthpieces and reeds you have tried!

Thanks
Hi Neal:

My greatest frustration on the sax was always ( and to a certain degree still lingers) is “Reed vs. Mouthpiece”. I am a self-taught saxophonist (autodidactic). When I started with the sax I had no one to advice me, internet didn’t exist,cellphones either. Living in an fourth world country never gave the opportunity to visit a sax music store an try out different mouth pieces & reeds ( I don`t even think they let you do that, you have to BUY)-
So I have never been able to try out the whole array of close tips vs. hard reeds, the inverse,etc, or talk with anybody who knew better.

So I thought the goal was playing a #5 reed on a #8 mouthpiece…!!!!…on an old leaky sax!!!! ! Can`t explain how I didn´t burst !

Oh my friend,…I suffered. I don`t know how, or why, I kept on pushing.

Actually I play on Otto Link metal #8 with Rico #2 on a Yamaha CustomZ tenor…..

I perform over my own tracks and interpret covers from the 40`s to the 80`s. From Duke & Dixie to Sting & Pink Floyd, even Elton !. I also play flute (that`s how I started , it was Jethro Tull`s fault), soprano and croak (sing) yes, I`m a singer too.

I have NO IDEA of how it feels/sounds to play on a close MP with a very hard reed, or the inverse. I still have and always will have the fantasy of having before me different MP and reeds and get to try them all ( half a bottle of scoth or tequila would turn the experience into a party !
Very well Neal… I have let out some of my saxophone frustrations…Uff , feel better!
I will appreciate spanding on this subject…at least so I can fantasize .

Cheers !

-Mike

My experience:

Right now I’m using a Vandoren V16 mouthpiece with a 9 tip opening. At first I was using V16 size 3 reeds, but they were too hard, so I went down to 2.5 and then 2.

I also use Fibracell reeds sometimes-  a size 2.5 seems to work well with the V16 T9 mouthpiece.

Before the Vandoren mouthpiece I was using a Selmer American 7* mouthpiece with size 3 V16 tenor reeds.

And I also have a Meyer 8 which I was using size 3 reeds on too.

My alto mouthpiece is a V16 A8 and I’m using size 3 Fibracells on it.

It takes some experimentation.

-Neal

Thoughts on the Vandoren A8 Alto Sax V16 Mouthpiece

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Have been playing a Vandoren V16 A8 alto sax mouthpiece for a little while now.
V16 A6M Alto Saxophone Mouthpiecealto_sax_V16_mouthpiece

It has a medium chamber- it’s the same specifications I have on the tenor mouthpiece that I really like.

The other mouthpieces I have for alto are a Jody Jazz and a Selmer piece that I got with a horn I bought.

I play the V16 mouthpiece with a medium strength reed and it seems to project pretty well. Haven’t tried a metal piece yet on alto.

Does anyone have any other recommendations?

Figure I’ll try some mouthpieces at the NAMM show.

Shop at Woodwind and Brasswind

Saxophone Mouthpiece Posts on Sax Station

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Have received a number of questions about saxophone mouthpieces, latest one,

“my only question is the mouthpiece line….. I want to sound more brighter than I used to be…… and I’m wondering if what mouthpiece will suit me best with a soft and flexible embouchure…..”

Seems not entirely different from questions I have received before and answered, so I put together this list of posts about saxophone mouthpieces.

Check out these posts, leave comments if you have more questions.

Thanks

-Neal

Saxophone Mouthpiece Numbers & Variables

 

Sax Mouthpieces! Question from Nicole

 

Saxophone Mouthpiece Question about what Neal plays

 

What’s Next After a Stock Saxophone Mouthpiece?

 

Reed and Mouthpiece Combinations…. Question from Mike

Saxophone Mouthpieces Reeds and Setup. More Responses from Sax Station subscribers to Mike’s Question

 

Lenny Pickett Mouthpiece – What’s He Playing?

What’s Next After a Stock Saxophone Mouthpiece?

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Hey Neal,
Thanks for these messages. Can I ask you for advice re upgrading my mouthpiece for my alto sax. I currently use the plastic mouthpiece that was supplied with my sax when I bought it. I think my playing would benefit from an upgrade and I fancy changing to a metal mouthpiece. My plastic one is a size 4C. What would be the equivalent size in metal, when Ive looked on the internet they refer to size  eg 5 lay, or 6 or 7, I’m confused. Could you give me some pointers to look for when upgrading? Thanks,
Damian

Hey Damian,
You’re welcome.  Changing your mouthpiece can definitely help your sound a lot.  More so than changing the actual saxophone in my opinion.

You say that you would like a metal piece, my advice would be to try a few of them out.  Metal gives a ‘brighter’ sound- meaning there’s more top to the sound and less bottom.  It cuts through and gives you more volume.  It’s also harder to control and especially harder to play softly.  Metal pieces work well in some situations, but they’re not as versatile as hard rubber.

Also, you could get an equivalent tip opening, but you don’t necessarily have to.  When I got a metal mouthpiece, I got a wider tip opening.  You’ll be able to control the wider tip better after a few years of playing compared to when you just started.  So it’s not necessarily about getting the same setting as your first mouthpiece, it’s more about trying out different mouthpieces and seeing what you like and are comfortable with.  In general you want a bit softer reed with a more open tip and a bit harder reed with a more closed tip.  The same reed on two different mouthpieces may work quite differently.

Different mouthpiece companies use different systems.  The numbers system is the one I’m familiar with, it’s used with many mouthpieces.  I think the number/letter is used for more ‘classical’ mouthpieces, which is not the style of music I play as much as others.  You can find charts that list equivalencies of distances and tip openings if you would like.

The best thing to do when looking for your next sax mouthpiece is to try out several and bring someone to listen.

Personally, I have been happy with my Vandoren V16 mouthpieces on tenor and alto, but that’s my preference.

-Neal

New Sax Mouthpiece? How to Adjust Your Setup

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So you just got a new sax piece that you love!

Will your reeds and ligature that worked with your old mouthpiece work too?

Possibly….

sax_sketch_s

But there’s a pretty strong possibility that you’ll need to make adjustments.

That means trying out new reeds and maybe a new ligature.

You can also make smaller adjustments by just trying different strengths of the reeds you like and switching out plates in the ligature if you have that option.

If the new mouthpiece has a wider tip opening, you probably want a softer reed.

If it’s more closed, you might need a harder reed.

Experiment with your saxophone sound and figure out something you like!

Kirk Whalum's Mouthpiece?

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In summer 2008 I got a Vandoren V16 for my tenor (T9).  I have really liked the sound and it’s open enough to get me some volume.  Later I ended up getting one for my alto.  Overall, it seems like hard rubber gets a better sound than metal.  Metal is brighter and can get you more volume though.  It’s a matter of preference for your own sound.

tenor_v16

It turns out Kirk Whalum is playing the V16 these days too!

I was talking with Sola the other day and he asked me, so I looked it up.

“Realizing that many players just like to “talk shop” and love trying out the “next new thing,” I’m glad I’ve found the mouthpiece that brings my sound up to ground zero… nothing in the way. Now I can concentrate on what really counts… developing a lovely, powerful, sensitive sound.”

Kirk Whalum (from his blog)

Lenny Pickett Mouthpiece – What's He Playing?

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According to what the Woodwind Editors, Lenny Pickett plays a Berg Larsen mouthpiece 130/0 facing and Vandoren 2-1/2 classic reeds on a Selmer Mark VI tenor sax.  (Saxophone Masterclasses 1998)

The information about his mouthpiece and horn is included next to the article that Lenny Pickett wrote.

experimentalsax

The mouthpiece and reed are going to make a much bigger difference in your sound that the actual saxophone (as long as it’s in good working condition).  And really, who is playing the saxophone is going to make a huge difference too.

Think about whether there is a specific person or a few people you want to sound like?

What you can do is check out what their mouthpieces and reeds are, to get an idea of what might help you get the sound you want.  Getting exactly that won’t be the solution necessarily, because physically they had a different body than you.

Checking out their equipment can get you in the direction you want though.

Sax Mouthpieces! Question from Nicole

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Hey Neal, I’ve been playing sax for 5 years now, I started on alto, now i play tenor. I was wondering what’s the difference between metal and hard rubber/ plastic mouthpieces?
-Nicole
saxophone mouthpiece
Neal:
Hey Nicole,
Cool, good to hear from you.

In general:

Metal mouthpieces have a ‘brighter’ sound and you can project more (more volume). Their volume is smaller which changes the air flow a bit- makes it faster.

Hard rubber pieces have a ‘darker’ sound and a fatter bottom- more overtones, etc.

Hard rubber sounds better than plastic… so plastic’s okay when you’re starting off, but when you want to go past that you probably want hard rubber.

I would say hard rubber has the best sound overall. Metal does have a different sound, so a lot of it is personal preference.

Using amplification, the volume factor isn’t as important as it used to be. But metal could help for like something like a marching band.

Generally, in ‘legitimate'(orchestra, concert band, etc) music- you’ll get funny looks if you try and play a metal mouthpiece. And besides the funny looks, it’s difficult to play softly on metal.

The size of the tip opening is very important too. You get more edge and brightness with a more open piece and it should correspond inversely with the strength of your reed- ie wider opening with softer reed.

I like the Vandoren V16 hard rubber pieces- I have them on tenor and alto. Have heard good things about Morgans. Meyers used to be very good, the new ones aren’t as good. Other mouthpieces that have the same name from years ago (like Otto Link) have changed a lot.
-Neal

Salsa Saxophone – Clave Patterns

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If you want to play salsa on saxophone, you need to understand the rhythm of the clave since it lays down the foundation for the music.

from antkriz on flickr
Salsa dancing- antkriz on flickr

There are two main types of clave patterns- 3-2 and 2-3.

Here the numbers represent down beats and the “+” represents upbeats.

Below the pattern is written 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8. to show each beat and upbeat.

The 2-3 clave
..2.3…5..+..8.
1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.

To say it out loud- 2,3, 5, , and where the ‘and’ is the upbeat of 6, 8

The 3-2 clave
1..+..4…6.7…
1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.

To say it out loud- 1, and, 4, 6, 7 where the ‘and’ is the upbeat of 2

There is also a pattern called the rumba clave.

The rumba clave
1..+…+..6.7…
1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.

To say it out loud- 1, and, and, 6, 7 where the first ‘and’ is the upbeat of 2 and the second is the upbeat of 4.

Check out Salsa Latin Jazz to try it out!